Navigation:
Documentation
Archive



Page Tree:

Child pages
  • W4 - Program Document Section 4

This wiki space contains archival documentation of Project Bamboo, April 2008 - March 2013.

Skip to end of metadata
Go to start of metadata

16 April - Service Atlas (Steve Masover)

Download slides (PDF, 7.45 MB)

  • Current artifacts of PB scholarly practice - narratives, recipes, activities; all help identify "what might useful services be, and how might they be relevant to scholarship"
  • Conceptual map - see chart in program document
  • Different communities have different perspectives
  • People who practice scholarship might be most interested in narratives?
  • Technologists will try to support everything, with help of families of shared technology services
  • Is Atlas a common reference we can all get our head around?
  • Some analogies (since we don't have a design yet):
  • Concordances - alternate views of texts-as-written
  • Two ways to see Aeschylus' Agamemnon (translation)
  • Point of view is embedded in language itself
  • Dozens of ways to look at a Wallace Stevens poem
  • Architectural views
  • Looking for real estate in San Francisco - mashup world; each piece available on the Web in a well-defined way
  • Someone can point to each of them and mash them together, to get a different perspective
  • Mashup data: six examples of more than 1600 examples of Google Maps mashups on programmableweb.org
  • Services Atlas: diverse collection of information that's familiar and important to each group and expressing the elements and relationship with each other with descriptive metadata
  • A gateway
  • Services Atlas isn't a user interface, but anyone can make a UI by using our API
  • PB plans to create initial views that meet immediate needs, but encourage others' development
  • Questions we can't answer: how will it work, what's the API, what will the UI look like, how many UIs will there be?
  • Is this worth the investment? If so, we can start building details.

Q & A

Q: Are you seeing service atlas/API as a way of accessing PB specific tools/content/etc? Exposed to tools outside of PB? How broad is it?
A: Personally, I don't think borders are very clearly drawn yet
Language fudged in there in various different places
Could be that how we implement stuff re: narratives/content/tools - could ingest information from other repositories
At the level of the Exchange, is that where we're ingesting things?
Big answer: PB is concerned to expose as much of the world as we can ingest
Where that will happen, not sure yet

Q: This looks a bit like a scholarly network - what's the difference between this and a scholarly network
A: How we're conceiving everything in the forum: this has more to do with how people get together and interact w/ each other; stuff that's in the cloud section, has to do with underpinnings
We have a collection of stuff exposed in some UI - could take the form of a widget, exposed into VREs or Facebook or Sakai
CJK: PB doesn't want to set out to create a stand-alone entity (new Facebook)
Need to put this all together- does this all work?
PB fits in, doesn't try to stand out

Q: Formally expressing PB standards; "these are PB compliant?"

Q: Narratives come from the community, so there's some feedback already in place

16 April - Bamboo Exchange (Kaylea Champion)

Download slides (PDF)

  • Human motivation: a taxonomy of motivation?
  • "What's in it for me?"
  • Goodwill: nope, we hope community will continue at that, Exchange isn't targeted there
  • Threats: not very fun or effective
  • Bribery, honor, joy
  • Bribery
    • RFP bidding system (useful for defined needs)
    • Classified ads ("Craiglist for scholars") - helps bridge key support staff during economic turmoil; "seeking... available..."
    • Incentives and awards; community-generated pool/distribution method; encourage and reward participation
    • Mechanisms for promotion & tenure: who's using my stuff, and how?
    • People have to do some extra work to get their work compatible w/ Services Atlas
  • Honor
    • Community-driven awards
    • Citation/usage tracking
  • Joy
    • Hooray, a web app! - an actual thing!
    • Exchange has a "physical" representation you can point to
    • Caveat: atlas approach helps connect what we've done in a user interface, bringing things to a new environment like campus VRE
    • Or, interact w/ same content via a web site
    • Good stuff to discover and explore (narratives, recipes, services, tools, projects, archives)

Q & A

  • Tim Cole: barter as part of a sustainability story
    • An agreement saying that a curated content provider w/ stuff in TEI - someone else wants their stuff in TEI = exchange TEI-ification for long-term service agreement w/ archive
      Recognized inefficiency in markets; matching things together
      Everyone ends up better off
  • John Norman: same point, essentially, but call it "arbitrage"
  • Steve Bennett (U Melbourne): are there other existing examples? KHC: Some, but more in gov't & commercial spaces ... if there are examples out there we'd
  • Boulder: pay a fee to make a listing, as an income stream?
  • Robert Gibbs (Toronto): Free rider problem. Will this be a problem? "Why are we paying for stuff everyone else can just use?" Range of negotiations; brokerage fees? Problems resolved seamlessly already somewhere else? When it comes to financial commitment to develop the stuff that goes into the Exchange?
    KHC: ARTFL as example ... some free some resource-for-pay - that's a model. Another might be current digitization efforts ... we have the free rider problem here already.
  • John Lauden (Louisiana): "Reputation" as a form of "payment" - does this get at the free rider problem? My incentive for contributing is to be seen as someone who contributes value to the community. Way for a peripheral university to have a play on a more national scene; make a reputation and not be a free rider; KHC: Yes. "Honor" gets at this a little bit, but "reputation" is a key way of speaking of this in an academic context, as JL says.
  • John Norman: In the early days of Sakai chose to give some IP to the community ... and got back "a free wiki tool" ... the open source movement is predicated on the theory and experience of giving stuff away and having it come back in a beneficial way. cf. JN's arithmetic of open source
  • John Butler -U MN - Example: Nanohub (Purdue) - measuring and displaying contribution as a way of incenting that contribution

16 April - Discussion of Poll #1

 

High

Medium

Low

None

4.1- Service Atlas

19

9

1

2

4.2- Bamboo Exchange

12

13

5

1

4.3- Shared Services Lifecycle

12

13

3

3

4.4- Tool & Application Alignment Partnerships

13

14

1

3

4.5- Content Interoperability & Partnerships

19

8

2

2

Discussion has moved here


17 April - Table Discussion of Section 4

  • Main points discussed: complicated and difficult and years to achieve; need to think about how to do it with what's available, how to get started
  • Some of these need to be separate projects (NSF?)
  • Some important elements here: technical architecture, raising availability of existing resources, aspects of the cloud
  • Bulletin board - checking in on projects, etc.
  • Overall: talking about how to use the project to hit the low-end fruit, start building out the cloud, some work that people are already doing (e.g. JStor)
  • How to get buy-in from institutions
  • Concrete proposal: on shorter timeline, take projects like SEASR, Zotero, etc that are already out there, thinking about ways to interconnect, and form this as the basis for cyberinfrastructure
  • Help them along, pull in other things (Sakai), then we take the narratives and use some seed money to go to scholars at individual universities and say "here's this infrastructure – Zotero, Monk, etc working together, let's build a narrative about what you can do."
  • Narrative isn't abstract-- what can you do with X?
  • If you did that sometime around a year, you could have a proof of concept for Bamboo
  • Constrained to a smaller project than we were originally thinking
  • Section 4 is fine as far as we can tell, from today
  • Not sure if we can refine it yet until we move further along
  • What would PB have to do to get us there?
  • There are still gaps we can't do individually as institutions
  • Finding a "killer app" or "the service" or 3-5 capabilities that individuals can't support on their own, that could fall into the platform
  • Supported by social/institutional networking, very light governance
  • A playground - coming together and exploring ideas, let market evolve for itself, recognizing that there's some discussion that has to happen
  • Something that enables people to share their resources
  • Sustainability and prestige - offering prestige, sustainability
  • Building onto "killer app" idea - 1st implementation, service atlas is a userufl platform we can build on, but what will get atlas into every university - need AN APPLICATION that in and of itself has return on investment
  • Useful, and can become more useful
  • MySpace - originally just for LA music scene, was useful, and grew beyond
  • "We need to do something for the LA music scene"
  • We want caution about being too dogmatic, assuming too much out of an "appliance"
  • "It might be lots of things"
  • JStor was successful initially because it capitalized on market inefficiency that could only be achieved by scale


  • Focused mostly on the Exchange
  • Our institutions have certain limitations in what they can give to projects (free staff, funding, etc)
  • Maybe the Exchange could be something like a commercial marketplace - some institution has a project, don't want to put 8 months of resources into it, willing ot pay someone else to develop it for them
  • Human resource center
  • Some conflict about how far that could go for an institution
  • Institutions providing resources? Do we pay? Do we need a new place that provides this kind of connection? Could we use existing sites (DiRT)?
  • Some confusion re: what the Exchange is all about
  • Interested in idea that we could develop Seasr and Zotero and Sakai; all of us could send an e-mail to the program staff, listing free websites that provide services to faculty in this area
  • Program staff could list/aggregate them, so people know broad scope of A&H scholarship was currently


  • Lacking specificity
  • Need more info about process of standardization
  • Coming to PB exchange, trying to contextualize
  • Still a problem with a lack of incentive
  • This is related to work of education group; was working on, but hasn't found its way into the document


  • Evolution
  • Marketplace is interesting; do we ant something complex, or just a place people can communicate?
  • Keep it lightweight, an evolving process around community consensus
  • A little "they're gonna do something", but who's the "they"?
  • Even 4.1 service atlas - is there an entity, "Bamboo", that's doing this? Who is that?


  • Focused on 4.4 and 4.3 and 4.5
  • Looking not at risks, but how to actually achieve all this, we have to figure out not only what is easiest and most efficient for the software/technical side, but what's most fruitful/important for the researcher
  • Sometimes what kinds of features and details and exceptions that a researcher wants to explore and encode in a document are the kinds of things that a person building software doesn't want to do to manipulate the document
  • Not a matter of telling a researcher what not to do, but how to reconcile
  • Understanding goals of each of the two communities
  • Also: these aren't easy problems
  • Not easy to engineer things with silo standards to build software
  • Shared services lifecycle - don't think it's clear enough in materials as written, how/where that takes place, who participates


  • Notion of services and being able to deploy them - question of specifications, what are we providing to facilitate that, what's coming out of institutions, how do you do replications, other scenarios that move services around, etc.
  • Easy to express ideas, but difficult to do because there's so much diversity involved
  • Focus on where the standard we're going to adhere to, and how minimalistic is it going to be?
  • *DAG: *We recognize the complexity of building services, interesting to hear you saying identifying a starting point and moving on


  • Faculty table
  • Group for whom services are supposed to be magically invisible
  • Spent most of our time trying to figure out what services atlas was
  • Highlight importance of educational element, communication element
  • Focused on opportunities/question about whether Bamboo is going to lead to opening up of commercial content for scholarly purposes
  • Responding to practical suggestion about JStor - good example
  • If university doesn't have subscription, not much good


  • IT table
  • Concerns about risks
  • Section 4.5
  • Can we deliver on the timeline?
  • Section 4 makes section 3 possible?
  • What are the objectives of a "bamboo.net"?
  • Concerns about money 0 what kind of support can we expect?
  • Section 4.2 will take particular funding
  • People are presenting content without services, then what?
  • Risks of service-oriented architecture
  • Will need a lot of trust in partnerships between institutions
  • Talked about institutions - modular/granular, people can buy into parts they think they can justify/need
  • No labels