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  • Workshop 5 - Major Areas of Work Plenary Discussions

This wiki space contains archival documentation of Project Bamboo, April 2008 - March 2013.

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6/17, Overview: Major Areas of Work

1:11

Project Bamboo:  CJK: We've come a long way- started April of last year, have had now 8 workshops

1:11

Project Bamboo:  Really come a long way in coming together as community, looking at issues; some things have surprised myself and others - how much this has resonated w/ different communities around the world

1:12

Project Bamboo:  Very exciting and wonderful planning process

1:12

Project Bamboo:  Now this is the last workshop, the end, where we need to as a community come together and decide for this first phase of work what direction to go in in the implementation proposal

1:12

Project Bamboo:  Workshop has been structured around that -- we have more to do, need to ratify where we're at in major areas of work, a lot of work still needs to be done, but is that direction that we have right?

1:13

Project Bamboo:  Need to refine implemenation and governance models

1:13

Project Bamboo:  Finally have governance model in proposal; overall for PB, but also in the major areas of work, how will project management function?

1:13

Project Bamboo:  Different groups of individuals might have different ideas of how to approach problems

1:14

Project Bamboo:  Need to articulate project management principals, how we'll work in the different areas that makes sense in a larger project

1:14

Project Bamboo:  Voice of our community needs to end up much more deeply woven into proposal

1:14

Project Bamboo:  Need to lay gorundwork, begin to develp examples for how MAoW connect w/ different communities here

1:14

Project Bamboo:  Take case statements at the beginning of proposal - different sets of values that resonate with different communities

1:14

Project Bamboo:  Need to start bulding those things out

1:15

Project Bamboo:  And edit and edit and edit and edit, even probably after we send to Mellon

1:15

Project Bamboo:  In MAoW, that will be the definition of what we're moving forward with

1:15

Project Bamboo:  This is the scope, now let's edit and draft such that it makes sense and resonates

1:15

Project Bamboo:  Intro section 1 - we have phase 1 case statements up

1:15

Project Bamboo:  From various phonecalls/conversations, we've had a lot of great feedback, people say they're resonating in various ways

1:16

Project Bamboo:  Shift case statement work into real introduction to proposal, value proposition for Bamboo

1:16

Project Bamboo:  The Humanities Story hasn't been written yet

1:16

Project Bamboo:  How technology relates to work, what are possibilities, different perspectives - don't have that; voice of community needs to be developed

1:16

Project Bamboo:  Proposal scope: summation of all the stuff in MAoW that are finished up

1:16

Project Bamboo:  Then there's Section 4: Major Areas of Work, and 4 sections

1:17

Project Bamboo:  Elevated community development from "something we need to do" to a major area of effort

1:17

Project Bamboo:  Project Management and Governance - will be discussed

1:17

Project Bamboo:  Partners & Roles - looking at our community, sign on the dotted line

1:17

Project Bamboo:  How does leadership council fit in, etc.

1:18

Project Bamboo:  Detailed Plans of Action - all the stuff we say we'll do, in minute detail; then, Budget and Resource Plans = money and people, articulating that

1:19

Project Bamboo:  How can we take Bamboo to where the work is happening

1:19

Project Bamboo:  That's the philosophy behind Scholarly Networking

1:20

Project Bamboo:  A lot of discussion around the Atlas - talking about these different kinds of connections that can be made, not just registering connecitons and uses but looking at it as a way of revealing ractice being a learning tool

1:20

Project Bamboo:  Real uses of information Atlas contains

1:20

Project Bamboo:  Services Platform: infrastructure we run it all on

1:20

Project Bamboo:  Scholarly networking / Atlas could be seen as sitting on services platform

1:21

Project Bamboo:  Place where we can take services that have become common, important to community, and work through a lifecycle that eventually moves them into infrastructure

1:21

Project Bamboo:  Responsibility of the community to maintain so a project doesn't have to maintain a resource forever for the community

1:21

Project Bamboo:  Admittedly, Bamboo Community was written in an airport lounge in Norway

1:22

Project Bamboo:  Hoping that at the workshop we can develop this much more richly

1:22

Project Bamboo:  Human element, knitting together different kinds of work, ways Bamboo can reach out and connect, but also how we can build and nurture community from within

1:22

Project Bamboo:  Important area - "if you'd like to come to an area where you can have interesting and wacky discussions, come this afternoon!"

1:22

Project Bamboo:  When we're done, we hope (and we'd better) finish this thing and get it out there

1:22

Project Bamboo:  Finalize conversations - first set of phonecalls was just first round

1:23

Project Bamboo:  As a community, here's what we're working on - you'll hold up the implementation proposal at your campus, and ask about participating, and at what level

1:23

Project Bamboo:  Participating? Leading? Here's the details to carry home.

1:23

Project Bamboo:  Formalize commitment - need to put this into the proposal

1:24

Project Bamboo:  Between now and end of December, need to finish the program document (remember the messy W4 document? - halted work on that because working on implementaiton proposal; need to go back and harmonize)

1:24

Project Bamboo:  In year 2, year 3, another opportunity, etc, we can turn back to the program document and use this as roadmap/guide for PB moving forward

1:24

Project Bamboo:  Whole host of deliverables we have to pass along to Mellon

1:24

Project Bamboo:  Have to do that by the end of the project

1:25

Project Bamboo:  We've had lots of discussions - David has been involved in many, many of them

1:25

Project Bamboo:  [DAG gets up to the mike]

1:25

Project Bamboo:  Thanks everyone for coming from all over the world to this workshop

1:26

Project Bamboo:  Fundamental part of that - your interests, want to do summary/highlights of things from converesations

1:26

Project Bamboo:  Talked to 30 institutions in last month

1:26

Project Bamboo:  This is a community-driven effort; some of the greatest value comes from linking together and building sustainable structure for different kinds of talents

1:26

Project Bamboo:  Also means, from the start, understanding from different institutions what they can commit

1:26

Project Bamboo:  From the start, trying to tackle sustainability

1:27

Project Bamboo:  Already got institutions signing up to do this work

1:27

Project Bamboo:  Initial round of conversations: what we did in W4

1:27

Project Bamboo:  Expect a second round of conversations - more specific/detailed

1:27

Project Bamboo:  A few discussions are scheduled for after workshop

1:27

Project Bamboo:  Talking w/ teams of people (thanks for those who brought in others)

1:27

Project Bamboo:  A number of the teams included faculty, technology, libraries, quite varied

1:28

Project Bamboo:  A lot of work already done on campuses in terms of going through the campus process of talking about PB

1:28

Project Bamboo:  Everyone emphasized, these were provisional, just trying to get ready for formal commitments

1:28

Project Bamboo:  Spent time explaining what process would look like between now and October

1:28

Project Bamboo:  People understood that process, understand the push in July/Aug for institutional sign-off

1:28

Project Bamboo:  25-ish institutions indicating areas where they want to lead/participate

1:28

Project Bamboo:  4 still clarifying what they want to do

1:29

Project Bamboo:  1 dropped out due to financial constraints/faculty interest; would like to come back later

1:29

Project Bamboo:  People had a lot of questions about what leadership meant

1:29

Project Bamboo:  Expect as we work through MAoW and governance model - become clear what this means

1:29

Project Bamboo:  Everyone's impacted by current financial situation - there's anumber of people participating on-line due to travel restrictions

1:29

Project Bamboo:  Trying to adjust based on this

1:30

Project Bamboo:  Struck by extent to which people want to use this as an investment to push institutions forward, hold on to right kind of innovation partnerships

1:30

Project Bamboo:  A lot of discussion in these conversations re: where institutions were, how to do right kind of aligment between local context and what PB is doing

1:30

Project Bamboo:  Where there's strong alignment, that's the best fit

1:30

Project Bamboo:  We want to help however we can to clarify possibilities of PB

1:30

Project Bamboo:  A lot of plces are refining/growing new digital humanities initiatives

1:30

Project Bamboo:  Bamboo as "catalyst for change" locally, bringing together for the first time people from Humanities, libraries, IT, etc

1:31

Project Bamboo:  People trying to work out issue: doing this alone, or do it together w/ Bamboo? Do we need to brand it locally? Can/should we give up some of that and do as collective effort?

1:31

Project Bamboo:  Chicken/egg problem - to see things happening through PB, need to push hard, and push program staff hard, and be part of solution

1:31

Project Bamboo:  A lot of discussion around humanities centers

1:31

Project Bamboo:  How to engage faculty on campuses

1:32

Project Bamboo:  Interesting model: taxonomy on local campuses for where faculty are. 4 categories (not only/best way, but interesting): faculty who are heavy users of digital tech, 2) faculty who are using it but less extensively, 3) not really using tech but have some interest/want to know more, 4) skeptical

1:32

Project Bamboo:  If you're going to make a strategic investment, which group to put emphasis on?

1:32

Project Bamboo:  #1 or #4 not the best place; maybe #3 - some interest but not doing much, but maybe more in #2 - people who are doing some, but can go the next step to be exemplars and share with others

1:33

Project Bamboo:  What's the right model for shaping a greater level for faculty engagement on campus?

1:33

Project Bamboo:  5-8+ institutions: major thing is bringing in individual faculty or digital humanities projects and use those to populate Atlas

1:33

Project Bamboo:  Capture faculty stories, build materials from different diciplines

1:33

Project Bamboo:  A lot of institution are interested in the Atlas, a fair amount of good questions re: incentives/sustainability

1:33

Project Bamboo:  Have to have sufficient/ongoing participation to generate rich set of content for Atlas

1:34

Project Bamboo:  Some discussion about making stronger/articulate connections between research and pedagogy

1:34

Project Bamboo:  Teasing out focus on pedagogy in multiple forms

1:34

Project Bamboo:  What does that look like, how is that manifested in the Atlas?

1:34

Project Bamboo:  "Location, location, location" - at one point, I thought it had become "Content, content, content"

1:34

Project Bamboo:  Came up in many ways, from many different institutions

1:35

Project Bamboo:  Journals, curated journals, museum collections, scholarly collections, Hathi Trust, etc.

1:35

Project Bamboo:  All different kinds of contexts

1:35

Project Bamboo:  This has to be woven in more concretely/strategically into services platform

1:35

Project Bamboo:  Forms of interoperability, interest in services

1:35

Project Bamboo:  Discussion re: roles of libraries and museums, how to help museums think about their way forward in PB

1:36

Project Bamboo:  Tool developer/CIO: interest in leading in services platform, discussion of "Yahoo pipes" model - if we have a rich enough set of tool/content services, can use these environments on top of it so people can build their own remixes

1:36

Project Bamboo:  People brought up work done around local, choices re: research environments

1:36

Project Bamboo:  Sakai 3 - virtual research environment, involves some of what's happening in scholarly networking

1:36

Project Bamboo:  Homegrown tools that could be refactored

1:36

Project Bamboo:  Large-scale infrastructure (JSTOR)

1:37

Project Bamboo:  Solving problems at scale, to help with services platform

1:37

Project Bamboo:  "Above the campus/cloud based services"

1:37

Project Bamboo:  Exploring different models for what that looks like

1:37

Project Bamboo:  CenterNet, Sakai, SEASR - importance of building in/making right kind of connections to tech initiatives

1:37

Project Bamboo:  Humanities center-led initiatives

1:37

Project Bamboo:  International partners- what's going on in e-Science, e-cyberinfrastructure in Europe, Australia

1:38

Project Bamboo:  Threads of convereation around community/community design

1:38

Project Bamboo:  Leveraging intelligence of community, enough people to get netowrk effects for content

1:38

Project Bamboo:  This thread willcome up in working group discussions

1:38

Project Bamboo:  Taking advantage of community in different forms

1:38

Project Bamboo:  "Which concrete projects/partners, in which areas?"

1:38

Project Bamboo:  The sooner that can be clarified, the more compelling the proposal - chicken and egg

1:39

Project Bamboo:  People who want to go further in more sophisticated forms of analysis around scholarly practice data - research, also, what success really means, how to do formative evaluation

1:39

Project Bamboo:  Some questions about scholarly networking and atlas

1:39

Project Bamboo:  Some indication about areas of proposal where we need to do more - who are partners, scholarly practice, pedagogy, sustainability

1:39

Project Bamboo:  Not a lot of mention of sustainability in proposal, but we've been using that model, need to tease it out further

1:40

Project Bamboo:  Encouraging about what people want to do, but this was the easy round

1:40

Project Bamboo:  In the next round, we have to figure out in more detail what kind of commitment/value makes sense, what level of responsibility, based on that, input from Mellon, investment of grant funds into proposal as a whole

1:40

Project Bamboo:  This workshop will get us to the next round of conversation, which areas this community wants to lead and drive forward

1:40

Project Bamboo:  Need to do this by the end of August, beginning of September

1:40

Project Bamboo:  Proposal has to be in very good shape in the next couple months

1:41

Project Bamboo:  Important to push that forward, make sure before we leave we have as much input as possible, how to move forward in July/Aug/Sept

1:41

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Before we get into agenda, do want to open up for questions

1:42

Project Bamboo:  Q: "Wondering about breakout of community into sections in scholarly network - now we're talking about gadgets in scholarly network, and people in community model"

1:42

Project Bamboo:  A (CJK): community was originally in governance; now, is there an overlap in scholary networking space? Network represents technical pieces, but when we talk community, we talk all of us, not the widgets we'd use

1:42

Project Bamboo:  What happens in scholarly networking should be applied by PB community

1:43

Project Bamboo:  Q: "I agree, some conversation to be had about connection between community and scholarly networking side."

1:43

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Community section as having a narrow jurisdiction - what has to happen to run some of the ongoing workshops we'd hold in implementation phase, what has to happen to develop/support next generation of wiki tool, a lot of broader sense of community (people w/o even formal role of PB) is happening in Atlas/Scholarly Networking/Services platform. Hope to clarify those boundaries by the end of the workshop.

1:44

Project Bamboo:  We've been using "community" pretty loosely, it has different meanings different places

1:44

Project Bamboo:  Q: "Community isn't scholarly community, but people who are "making Bamboo"?"

1:44

Project Bamboo:  DAG: NOt just governance, there's other things we need to do to sustain ongoing communication

1:44

Project Bamboo:  30+ institutions involved in making PB work - how do we make sure the group, in terms of formal membership/participation, can keep that going, sustain those conversations, etc.

1:45

Project Bamboo:  100k people involved in Humanities - much larger community, trying to reach out to them through Atlas, Serivces Platform, Scholarly Networking

1:45

Project Bamboo:  CJK: There's the Group that's There running the project, actively participating. There's people doing leadership/development.

1:45

Project Bamboo:  671 people on the wiki, not that many in this room.

1:45

Project Bamboo:  There's an extended community of individuals and institutions; this is "Our Community"

1:46

Project Bamboo:  Efforts/work in bringing in new ideas, sharing concepts, connecting w/ projects, sharing resources - this is human connection above that; from that, we define specific pieces that we might want to develop/build to support the greater good; this is where we get into governance, project moving forward in different areas

1:46

Project Bamboo:  We set off to be a tech project; ended up with a set of tech projects AND a group of individuals that have come together to solve problems with or without tech

1:47

Project Bamboo:  Hope we can talk about that here, help define it. If it turns out the right place is to come out of a MAoW and go back into governance, let's do that

1:47

Project Bamboo:  No more questions - now for the agenda

1:48

Project Bamboo:  4 major areas of work

1:48

Project Bamboo:  Will be breaking out in various groups to answer questions on the webpage. Is description clear? Does it make sense (for you, for Bamboo)?

1:48

Project Bamboo:  We're talking about this as a community

1:48

Project Bamboo:  If you're sitting in a MAoW group, it's probably important for you

1:48

Project Bamboo:  Are the deliverable maps realistic?

1:49

Project Bamboo:  What should success look like? What do we have at the end of it?

1:49

Project Bamboo:  Will have more conversations and discussions - are there other considerations that we need? What are the holes?

1:49

Project Bamboo:  Dependenceis? Have we missed something?

1:49

Project Bamboo:  There's time between now and January

1:50

Project Bamboo:  What are opportunities of getting advance work done?

1:50

Project Bamboo:  Will have Washington & Lee team present some ideas around Bamboo Exchange

1:51

Project Bamboo:  Then, tomorrow, think about community. How do we describe/share with different communities? How do we connect w/ scholarship, librarians, CIOs, etc.

1:51

Project Bamboo:  Impact audience, follow-up necessary to get material written

1:51

Project Bamboo:  After morning break, open discussion of MAoW

1:51

Project Bamboo:  Based on discussions you've had in the MAoW breakouts, what are changes that are being suggested?

1:51

Project Bamboo:  "Throw it out, make it entirely different" - what do those look like?

1:52

Project Bamboo:  11:30 tomorrow: community vote on whether each of those sections are something we want to continue/move forward with

1:52

Project Bamboo:  Need to get a vote, trying to achieve consensus, not total agreement

1:52

Project Bamboo:  Is each area of work an appropriate direction? Can we achieve success?

1:52

Project Bamboo:  This is a COMMUNITY VOTE - you as a person, obviously influenced by what you do, but not "as a member of X..."

1:53

Project Bamboo:  Moving into governance/project management in afternono

1:53

Project Bamboo:  Potential demonstrator for Bamboo Atlas as idea for between now and December

1:53

Project Bamboo:  On Friday, more discussion about community, what it takes to sustain, values, principles, but also allowing time if we need to do a second vote and have discussion on a particular area

1:53

Project Bamboo:  Give us some time to work on things if necessary

1:54

Project Bamboo:  A lot of work for us - need to move into it and get started

1:55

Project Bamboo:  (We're now doing logistics for break-out groups)

1:56

Project Bamboo:  We'll be back at 3:00 for a break, around 3:15 we'll ba back for the plenary

1:57

Project Bamboo:  Q: "There's only one person for Community, they're going to be lonely. There's a problem conceptually w/ having that separate"

1:58

Project Bamboo:  A (CJK): A few more have signed up


6/17 Report Out: Major Areas of Work

4:19

Project Bamboo:  CJK: For report-out, we're bringing up notes from the wiki; talking about changes to what's here.

4:20

Project Bamboo:  So everyone's up to speed tomorrow re: what was discussed

4:20

Project Bamboo:  Start with scholarly networking

4:20

Project Bamboo:  Two people there for the second part

4:21

Project Bamboo:  In general, didn't have problem with scope of the scholarly networking area

4:21

Project Bamboo:  Wanted to change proposal to be more concrete

4:21

Project Bamboo:  Seemed the deliverabls and problems were generic (will build a "gadget", but what problem is it solving?)

4:21

Project Bamboo:  Hard to pitch and support that, how do you measure success?

4:22

Project Bamboo:  Talked about a few possible problems that could be solved, a lot to do still on that

4:22

Project Bamboo:  Changing focus from "build gadget" to "solve these problems"

4:22

Project Bamboo:  Talked about data points that scholarly networking would want to share/expose

4:22

Project Bamboo:  Include CVs, research interests, tools (connection w/ other parts of Bamboo)

4:22

Project Bamboo:  Open question: in each of those, how to decide/figure out a way re: what critical mass we need

4:23

Project Bamboo:  Is it useful to find other scholars? If only other PB institutions' scholars?

4:23

Project Bamboo:  Need the ability for non-PB scholars to post tools, etc?

4:23

Project Bamboo:  CVs as possibly a core content based item

4:23

Project Bamboo:  Also looked at Facebook, Ning, Sakai - need to do similar things, but also need something original

4:23

Project Bamboo:  Possibly building a gadget that could link to institutional repositories

4:24

Project Bamboo:  Noted that need to not lose sight of need to do more work on actual needs -- scholarly narratives, need to feed into scholarly network as well

4:24

Project Bamboo:  Need to know what the problem is, we might be losing sight of that

4:24

Project Bamboo:  Need to ask scholars what they need

4:24

Project Bamboo:  Needs of early career researchers; ethnographies of how scholars work and use scholarly networks

4:25

Project Bamboo:  Work done at OU has to be taken account of and built on

4:25

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Questions for scholarly networking?

4:25

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Now for the Atlas

4:25

Project Bamboo:  Started out with general concerns in new formulation of what was included in Atlas

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Specifically: inclusion of education/pedagogy - needs to be more deeply embedded

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Proposal needs to more directly discuss arts

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Focused on three questions: clear enough? right deliverables? didn't get to success

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Description wasn't clear enough for the Atlas

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Long discussion initiated by Janet about what the Atlas was

4:26

Project Bamboo:  After some "feeling around on the elephant", common conclusion about what it was

4:26

Project Bamboo:  Many things to many people

4:27

Project Bamboo:  Now envisioned as supporting scholars in scholarship - "what tools are there?"

4:27

Project Bamboo:  Supporting developent of tools within Bamboo

4:27

Project Bamboo:  There to support study of scholarly practice and see changes that are happening

4:27

Project Bamboo:  Atlas has a lot on its table

4:27

Project Bamboo:  Re: deliverables - discussion about deliverables, 1-4 content-focused deliverables vs. technology-building

4:27

Project Bamboo:  Focused on content deliverables - seem pretty realistic, some concern about how much is being promised in year 1

4:28

Project Bamboo:  Build deliverables - some concern about it, but discussion moved to "are there other tools out there (content management, networking tools) that would have same function?"

4:28

Project Bamboo:  David discussed tool developed at UVA - a lot of the functionality that we might be looking for

4:29

Project Bamboo:  Those were major issues; only other thing was talking about scholarly narratives - how that data would be collected, curation issues, amount of human intervention needed (now/future), how would that be sustained

4:29

Project Bamboo:  David (UVA): Re: formulation of ingredients, food preparation steps, utensils - putting in people (cooks, eaters, etc) : connection to social network

4:30

Project Bamboo:  Social network repository of tools, go from a tool to see who's developing, etc.

4:30

Project Bamboo:  Different points of access - need to have multiple for people to find the materials

4:30

Project Bamboo:  Usage scenarios - search, tag, etc

4:30

Project Bamboo:  Ontologies, tag clouds - people, projects, organizations > the technologies and tools they use

4:30

Project Bamboo:  Incentivize it - not becoming a detritus of lost momentum

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Importance of data use within people's own content management systems, etc.

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Making it into an engine, web service APIs, etc

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Importance of people being able to put community-specific info in, concealed from otheres

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Extract portions of the atlas

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Mining/curation - ingesting existing data

4:31

Project Bamboo:  Curation: post-mining, post-submission, so curator isn't in the way of material being generated

4:31

Project Bamboo:  At UVA, working on creating something like this using Ruby on Rails

4:32

Project Bamboo:  Follows these kind of Bamboo principles (service architecture, web service APIs, etc)

4:32

Project Bamboo:  Comment on issue of bringing out other parts of the overall community

4:32

Project Bamboo:  Where does performance/creative act come in?

4:33

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Comments on Atlas?

4:33

Project Bamboo:  Kaylea: From schol network group to Atlas - in general, thought that services that would make sense varied based on kind of data available in Atlas

4:33

Project Bamboo:  If Atlas is strong emphasis of institution-institution connection, one kind of content

4:33

Project Bamboo:  Or, if it's scholar-scholar connection

4:33

Project Bamboo:  Split the difference, both?

4:34

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Not one or the other, a mix of things

4:34

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Failure for the atlas, "detritus of lost momentum"

4:34

Project Bamboo:  Certain amount of trying to say more about what the Atlas was, had different meanings for different people; is there a sense that that's okay?

4:35

Project Bamboo:  Need software for quick voting!

4:35

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Sound like that's okay

4:36

Project Bamboo:  Answer: In principle, that's fine (in the context of 6-8 year project). But not 1-2 year. Group needs to do more work to select and focus on what to do in 1-2 years. Current plan has parts that are too vague.

4:36

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Are you going to pick some of that up in tomorrow's conversation? Hone down and narrow possibilities?

4:36

Project Bamboo:  DAG: This came up in services platform too; already had discussion about value.

4:36

Project Bamboo:  Need to push harder on which of a broad range of elements are most important for first years.

4:37

Project Bamboo:  Hearing some of the questions that have to tease out, relationship between atlas and scholarly networking

4:37

Project Bamboo:  Where are the intersections?

4:37

Project Bamboo:  A: ONe of the things we need clarifications from program staff - what does Mellon expect to receive?

4:37

Project Bamboo:  Discussion was clarifying the scale of what was going to be in the first year, reducing it in size rather than eliminating certain things that were requirements

4:38

Project Bamboo:  Comment from John Wolffe who's listening on-line: worried that Atlas group is biting off more it can chew; further thoughts about incentivizing contributions?

4:38

Project Bamboo:  Had a lot of discussion about incentives

4:38

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Tomorrow's task: more definition of what would be most important things for year 1-2

4:38

Project Bamboo:  Relatedly, some issues around incentives so we don't set up project that would fail once energy reduces

4:38

Project Bamboo:  Q: See a blurring between Atlas and Service Platform

4:39

Project Bamboo:  Notion of recipes/instruction assumes there's food/tools elsewhere; is the food (content) and tools part of Atlas, or is it being deeloped by Service Platform?

4:39

Project Bamboo:  Connecting pre-existing things?

4:39

Project Bamboo:  DAG: To extend cookbook further, Atlas is a lot of info about what to do in a kitchen, but when you open a cookbook you don't find either the ingredients or tools in there; tools/content aren't in the Atlas, but pointers to them, discussions, etc.

4:40

Project Bamboo:  In Services Platform, expect to get to a point where the platform exposes services that would be used; tied to content, which exists in distribtued world, managed in various places

4:40

Project Bamboo:  In the future, some of that content is stored in the Cloud too, but mixing cloud and recipe metaphors is probably a mistake

4:41

Project Bamboo:  Q: When people are talking content, there's different kinds. One is content that might exist in repositories or existing content that can be shared. Other is individual researcher's creation that they need to put into processin. Separate kind of things, one can relate to another, haven't distinguished between them. When people are asking about content, some are meaning " are we going to have Great Repositories", but PB probably isn't going to make them, but just provide ways to access; other content is what the users will be putting in

4:42

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Using content loosely; Atlas will be the holder of community content (descriptions, annotation, markup, metadata, tags, whatever) but not the same thing as a digital library of archaeology

4:42

Project Bamboo:  From John Wolffe: Don't forget the pedagogical content; tools for professional development, education, etc; might go to community section

4:42

Project Bamboo:  DAG: Atlas design - capturing information highly relevant for teaching/research, artificial distinctions anyhow to some extent.

4:43

Project Bamboo:  Now for Service Platform

4:44

Project Bamboo:  Spent a lot of time covering more of the value proposition, less of the questions that we were asked

4:44

Project Bamboo:  Felt it really wasn't covered in the proposal

4:44

Project Bamboo:  A lot of things about the language used in the descriptions, how the case was being made

4:44

Project Bamboo:  Ultimately, no one was disagreeing with what was said, just choice of words

4:44

Project Bamboo:  Stepped back to try to look/classify things wanted in intiial step of process

4:45

Project Bamboo:  Split "servies we need to offer to support Atlas/Networking" and "other services more generally useful to scholarship in the Humanities"

4:45

Project Bamboo:  Content, content, content

4:46

Project Bamboo:  One of the issues we're trying to address: what're the right deliverables for year 1?

4:46

Project Bamboo:  What to do to show we're adding value on the side of the services platform?

4:46

Project Bamboo:  Cloud capabilities we'd need (didn't talk about it much - that's an easier problem), what would be specific examples/services?

4:46

Project Bamboo:  Will need to reach out to all the other groups and find out what the different needs each of you here have, because services have to be geared up to address that

4:47

Project Bamboo:  Sequencing of what you feel in scholarly networking, atlas, etc., those capabilities the platform needs to provide - one of the elements, other are these projects that lay out the kind of services we would also want to enable so we can foster new kinds of development in the Humanities

4:47

Project Bamboo:  Laying out outline for what criteria would be in thinking about projects we want to pursue on services platform to augment projects already underway

4:48

Project Bamboo:  Specifically talked about the language in a couple spots during the discussion; related to the ambiguity of trying to present virtualization as a solution for services that will be made

4:48

Project Bamboo:  What we gain in terms of portable containers

4:48

Project Bamboo:  Services that are unique and self-cntained in their own project space; existing in multiple places

4:48

Project Bamboo:  Process of osmosis for scholars to mix-and-match content w/o stepping on toes of owners of those project spaces that are containerized

4:49

Project Bamboo:  Some language needs to be either very deliberate (we are doing virtualization, in X/Y/Z flavors" and story of why this is necessary part of project. why is it a good thing?

4:49

Project Bamboo:  Even in introduction, talking more about implementing infrastructure than why it's important.

4:50

Project Bamboo:  Q: Re: not stepping on toes of content owners, one of questions about value should be addressed - WHY

4:50

Project Bamboo:  What do you get out of it as a content owner?

4:50

Project Bamboo:  DAg: Content owner = ...?

4:50

Project Bamboo:  Q: If I have those 100k digital surrogates of archaeological artifacts, why do I want it to be available?

4:51

Project Bamboo:  CJK: This is one of the things that has hit me, a lot of what is written and thought process is on the consumer side. We're all running into the provider-side value proposition - more than just a library

4:51

Project Bamboo:  A: Was a case where the developer personally didn't want to share, but the university wanted to make it available

4:52

Project Bamboo:  Q: Was there discussion about how partnering would be done? How do you get people to agree?

4:52

Project Bamboo:  A: Did talk about "refactoring" and what that might mean, because there's several different levels -- one form, as alluded to, is making it available as a virtual appliance

4:52

Project Bamboo:  That's the simple and most plausible form - allows someone to take a thing and make it portable and useful

4:53

Project Bamboo:  Other levels of refactoring, and even the term will probably shock people-- especially if they have a mature application, unless they're partnering to say "let's dissect my project, find out what you want to re-deploy in a more granular anatomy to make it useful in more environments than what it was engineered for"

4:53

Project Bamboo:  Have to be cautious about term "refactoring"

4:54

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Moving on to group that dissolved itself after first part - Community

4:54

Project Bamboo:  4.4 should be folded into section 5 as a core piece of Bamboo. Thank you.

4:54

Project Bamboo:  What is the community piece about? It does take a lot of effort/energy to maintain and support community

4:55

Project Bamboo:  One of things that has been missing: advocacy, best practices

4:55

Project Bamboo:  Should be there, hasn't shown up in the text

4:55

Project Bamboo:  That's a role of the community

4:55

Project Bamboo:  Role of community in governance - that's tomorrow

4:55

Project Bamboo:  Not just the projects that are essentially guiding shor/middle-term effort, but also community and its activities

4:55

Project Bamboo:  Vritual collaboration piece - how does scholarly networking interface w/ community, w/ all the other pieces?

4:56

Project Bamboo:  If the community is about expressing Bamboo, advocating for particular approaches, best practices, connecting, collaborating, continuing community, sharing ideas/resources/etc, then virtual environment should support our activities/tools/etc

4:56

Project Bamboo:  Current set of tools is probably inadequate for moving forward

4:56

Project Bamboo:  We just have to do this, not the kind of thing we start in January and hopefully it's done by following January - kind of useless that way

4:57

Project Bamboo:  Should look at demonstrator, integrate community into governance, and between now and December, launch demonstrator that does requirements analysis, looks at what we need to be doing to get the right capabilities for collaboration, then extend Bamboo beyond the boundaries of this community

4:57

Project Bamboo:  Move forward with an implementaiton in that demonstrator, to have a 0.9 version around December.

4:57

Project Bamboo:  So it's ready for January

4:58

Project Bamboo:  Demonstrator piece that Washington & Lee actually already did

4:58

Project Bamboo:  From Workshop 4, ideas of Bamboo exchange, went through it bullet by bullet, and built Drupal environment as a mock-up to demonstrate the idea of what the exchange could be

4:58

Project Bamboo:  Did it because they could

4:58

Project Bamboo:  Connects in with the notion of the kind of environment we need to support in a virtual way

4:58

Project Bamboo:  12 minute 20 second movie

4:59

Project Bamboo:  Questions?

4:59

Project Bamboo:  Q: Still confused. Wiki now used for artifact capturing (Atlas), another is some crude level of networking (Networking), so why do we need something separate?

4:59

Project Bamboo:  CJK: Space we need to use to run our projects, share documents/materials/etc, we have Confluence for that, it's arguably inadequate for that

4:59

Project Bamboo:  Need to do something in that space anyways

5:00

Project Bamboo:  As the Atlas comes up, as different services come up, as gadgets come up, our environment that we use to conduct our own work and communicate value to the world, share press releases, etc

5:00

Project Bamboo:  What projectbamboo.org does today, should be able to consume everything that we build

5:00

Project Bamboo:  Won't be able to consume the Atlas on day 1, because it won't exist yet

5:01

Project Bamboo:  Tech selection process (plan stage) - coming together w/ people really interested in services platform, atlas - what tech choices do we need to make now that are reasonable, so our environment will hopefully be able to consume materials we create

5:01

Project Bamboo:  Demonstrates how you can reuse different components

5:01

Project Bamboo:  Demonstrate the values we believe in

5:02

Project Bamboo:  From John Wolffe: Community, looking at comments posted on wiki, looks like it's internally focused on talking about Bamboo activities/tools; also could use the community idea as a place for wider debate on impact on digital tech and scholarship, as a way of looking at what's going on out there

5:02

Project Bamboo:  Not just internal focus, but also looking at wider things


6/18, Open Discussion: Major Areas of Work

11:45

And we're back for a brief report-out

11:45

Starting with Atlas

11:45

It's not easy finding a volunteer

11:46

We've roped Steve into it

11:46

Steve: In last part of discussion, realization that we're still here with a chicken/egg problem

11:46

Hard to say what the value is of a thing we don't know, we don't know the thing until we know the value

11:47

Had people who wanted to talk about value of atlas that includes things like helping IT people understand range of scholarly practice

11:47

Value in looking at growing communities w/in a campus that are cross-role

11:47

Like Bamboo participation includes participation from many areas of the campus

11:48

Ability for faculty to figure out what's available, what's already built, who's the peer community doing this, to connect with people and tools, find digitized content that's relevant, explanations of how content has been made accessible to tools that might be interesting

11:48

Talk about pedagogy as one of the elements that's described in atlas

11:48

How someone who's interested in putting together a course/teaching can find applicable things in atlas

11:48

How methods of scholarship can be citable by being included in the Atlas

11:48

Can be found by practitioners who are used to following citations

11:49

Jim: Started off w/ success factors, one thread was getting user content in atlas, getting scholars engaged; what are incentives?

11:49

Notion of Bamboo Fellows

11:49

Help shepherd scholarly practices; Unsworth's scholarly primitives

11:49

Tools sustainable, incentivizing people to finish the job to make tools more sharable

11:50

How Atlas could be place to document and rate and evaluate and peer   review

11:50

Steve: Question of content - content interoperability partnership was centered in Bamboo Services Platform discussion, but quite a lot of talk about centrality and role of content in Atlas, how partnerships with content stewards play into Atlas

11:51

DAG: Progress made to outline incentive/driving mechanisms?

11:51

John: Partial list of incentives, others mentioned a few others

11:51

List of incentives for contributing: content, or tools, moreso than narratives, but could extend to narratives

11:51

Reciprocal access - by being "in" and providing stuff, there's reciprocation

11:52

Automatic advertising for your stuff

11:52

Visible to anybody, but could be more proactive advertising - Amazon books model "you might be interested in..."

11:52

Can get info sent back automatically-- "remember looking for X? Someone's made it"

11:52

Mechanism for providing stable citation for works you contribute

11:53

This then places a normal scholarly obligation on anyone loading your stuff to cite you for it in a normal way

11:53

That visibility is something people worry about; atlas might offer a mechanism for resolving that

11:53

Not all institutions give enough credit to non-text non-print works like this, but culture is starting to change and this will help

11:54

4th incentive: because people go to Atlas for work rather than directly peer-to-peer, site itself can accumulate info and metrics, who's looking for what, rating mechanism to enable comments, that helps to validate and add measures of quality to your work

11:54

Promotion of common, fostering of common standards

11:54

Essential part of mechanism for doing that

11:54

Requiring submitted material to be conformant with standards

11:54

Worthy: Idea of credentializing - Bamboo Seal of Approval

11:55

This would then have some benefit at some point

11:55

Martin talked about that might be an incentive that the product goes through the interoperability phases, working out the kinks

11:55

Way of bringing back institutional incentive to do documentation beyond what they'd otherwise do

11:55

Relatedly, idea is that there will evolve to a certain extent an authority associated with Bamboo as it develops

11:56

Authority, so if one is giving ratings, this will be recognized widely as being responsible and responsive to a wider community

11:56

If you want to formalize those things futher, may wel lthink of creating some kind of journal (whatever the format would be) in which you could have a peer review process

11:56

This would then provide an incentive

11:56

This would also provide mechanism that could be a form of outreach/promotion of Bamboo

11:57

Neil: One idea that was floating around in tools/data-driven scholarship workshop: running tool contests

11:57

Wouldn't take much money, could incentivize building, would get Bamboo's name out

11:57

Part of a larger effort that PB needs to create cultural capital for itself

11:57

Contests, fellowships, would be out there in competitive ways that would help to build that kind of cultural capital

11:58

Worthy: This has been done successfully

11:58

Scholarly networking, Kaylea

11:59

Wanted to put out proposal to the group: if we might do some division of labor, around which sections of the proposal focus on what

11:59

Metaphor of tree: roots below where services platform lives, everything relies on it; then trunk, and major bows, and that's the Atlas (middleware), and scholarly networking is leaves and branches - focused on individual scholar/technologist and their connection into broader organism

11:59

Delivering content out to where people live, but also bringing in network of scholars

12:00

Interface by which people interact with Atlas, way information/data/recipes come in

12:00

Frontend also belongs in the place where the "gadgets", traditional scholarly network is - link

12:00

Human-facing elements in one umbrella

12:00

Linda: Identified three problems that could be addressed

12:00

First: scholar is seeking a process or expertise to digitize a bibliography and maintain it

12:01

Go to scholarly netwokr to get help

12:01

2: Seeking partner to collaborate on a bid in a scholarly area

12:01

3: Scholar seeking to find a tool for a specific pedagogical purpose

12:01

Integrate audio/video/screen capture to show students how to do image analysis; recommendations for tools, experience

12:01

Looking for someone who's used it, which is best?

12:02

Going back to CVs, talking about informal chat facility

12:02

How might that work technically? Issues about how it integrates people chatting who are on the same platform

12:02

Can you talk cross-platform, under the Bamboo umbrella?

12:03

Connecting what Kaylea/Linda said, similar to Atlas problem statements

12:03

Scholarly network as face whereby Atlas or anything else reaches community

12:03

If that does not get accepted, problem statements look different

12:03

One of questions struggling with - extent to which exposure of data w/in atlas, people, content, CVs, etc, is limited to the PB community or scholars within that, or exposed more broadly

12:04

Tools that are discovered - is that just w/in PB community? Or generic tools being found using medium of recipes?

12:04

DAG: Practical suggestion since we have proposals about re-formulating the scholarly network, do some of that work at lunch and present back right before the vote because people will have questions about that, want to ask before the vote, but don't want to hold up lunch too much longer

12:04

Scope/dimension/what gets combined for scholarly network

12:05

Services Platform

12:05

Previous two groups are all staking a claim on something we too seem to think we're providing

12:05

"Everyone's been pissing on the same tree"

12:06

Early on, in deliverables, the takeaway from deliverables is that on the whole, what's described is about right, but emphases need to b shifted

12:06

Need to be able to deliver on something that people can use, not just on PB services (internal, like scholarly network)

12:06

Guidelines and documentation for external purposes too

12:06

These exist in the deliverables as we have them

12:06

DAG: Weaving in a greater focus on content from multiple places; doing this as early work for services is fundamental

12:07

We too are a plce where you find/use content

12:07

Measures of success: how much of an effect can there be in one year?

12:07

Probably not earth-shattering

12:07

Projects have a "Powered by Bamboo" sticker that you see

12:07

Pick some projects, big projects w/ well-established user base, and have Bamboo become the provider for at least one

12:07

Projects should have established user base so it'll reach more people

12:08

Have to work with existing content; have to be able to do this

12:08

PB should become a service, not content, provider

12:08

Shouldn't expect content

12:08

If PB provides services, and scholars create content, that'll prevent Google from getting there first

12:08

Basing interoperability on other big projects like Fedora

12:08

Measure of success is voluntary enthusiastic correspondance

12:08

Possible to easily use existing data sets / corpora

12:09

Can easily build on top of things that will meet needs of researcher

12:09

ORE for humanities, or particular discipline in first year

12:09

If succeeds in helping humanities and NEH get a better, bigger buy-in at federal leel

12:09

Our funding is a "rounding error" on the scientists' funding

12:09

That's the value assigned to us

12:10

Big question about relationship with Atlas and its measure of success and functionality

12:10

Value proposition: assigning paragraphs to people; looked at what audiences were, and said "CIO is less important than deans", in terms of management type people, want to add deans as well as CIO, and libraries weren't mentioned at all; want to address value for libraries as something to give to university librarian, but also because all digital library people - similar to PIs, has to be value for them too

12:11

4.3 platform services document- most technical section

12:11

One of deliverables has to be a less technical description of this area

12:11

Better account of problems/goals this technology will address so there's a reason to create the tech

12:12

Proposal makes sense, want to change emphasis

12:12

Parallel streams of work: creation of set of documents or descriptions about what the criteria are for development of Appliance software, and what standards are for interacting and for partnerships

12:12

Also, creation of software itself

12:12

So appliance sitting on top of a cloud, and 3rd thing is set of relationships w/ other pieces of the project (atlas, networking) and outside partnerships

12:13

Outside partnerships - strong element of what will drive forward use of Bamboo

12:13

Proof to people already using kinds of technologies, what PB can do to make it better

12:13

Small plea: describing goals/values, wanted to add librarian's perspective, got hints for howto describe funding organization, but we're searching for faculty member who could write what the pedagogical impact is

12:13

(laughter; we've got that)

12:14

DAG: Almost every person in services platform group volunteered to write up a scenario

12:14

Statements we're soliciting will be woven into these sections are also statements we want to mine to add to the case statement

12:15

Worthy: Mentioned riding on these things, at last thing say they're doing it, now say "let's do one for scholarly networking" - why not have one that refers to both?

12:15

One problem statement with facets

12:15

DAG: Want to make sure pedagogy is addressed even in most technical back-end infrastructure

12:15

What might students do in the future with it?

12:15

Examples looking forward to new future across the disciplines


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